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Circle of Mom's Contest: A Different Perspective.

5/27/2011

36 Comments

 
Drama. The contest started, it was fun, exciting, I was getting to meet new people and discover new blogs and getting a chance to support the ones I love.

Then Pagan Soccer Mom started moving to the top. Things started shaking up. (Isnt it interesting that it takes us being shaken sometimes to start focusing on the mission God gave us, the Big mission, the "Great" one, the one we are Co-Missioned to. To take initative to share the gospel and make multiplying disciples. God shook up the believers in Acts (11:19-21) and as a result, "a great number who believed turned to the Lord." Things started shaking, enter drama. Heated and hurtful but also caring and understanding comments were being made over at Time Warp Wifes Facebook thread (which Pagan soccer mom posted on her blog). Drama.

Normally when I think of drama I think of it in a negative way, but what's wrong with drama? Isn't God's story dramatic. And God is writing this story. He is the Author.
A worthy of your time read!

Us vs Them
"They" are not the enemy. They are ladies, wives, mothers... people created in the image of God. People dearly loved more than we could imagine, by the Giver of Life. They are misunderstood and have been hurt and possibly isolated for what they believe. Perhaps cut off from people who could give the very truth that could give ultimate Life. We can't afford to have an us vs them attitude. Jesus didn't. I think of the prostitute that Jesus let wash His feet with her oil. She was ostricized, but Jesus didn't see her for what she "did", but saw her.  A person, someone His heart broke for, someone He was passionate about.

If we stand face to face in opposition with people who need (and in some cases want) to hear God's offer for them, how can they receive it? When we seek to understand and communicate with respect because people are valuable, people hear.

What do I do with these emotions?
With hundreds of women in this contest, I'm not going to assume we all feel the same way. But when we live by our emotions instead of by what God says its true, well, it can just be bad news. So if you are feeling anything you're not sure what to with...

Ask yourself 4 questions:
What are you feeling?
What are you thinking that is leading to that feeling?
What does your feeling show you you're believing about God?
What's true about God?

Here's mine:
I feel scared.

Because I think, "What if our opportunity to have a Christian presence to 6 million other moms is illiminated?" "What if these 6 million women only have exposure to is pagan or witch blogs?"

Believing about God? That He can be outwitted, controlled or is taken off guard. That He is not able to reach people. Ugh! Convicting!

Whats True about God? That this didn't surprise Him, He is unfolding a great story, He is wooing more womens hearts than I imagine. That if He really didn't want things to be going the way they are, they wouldn't be. He is Powerful! 

Another emotion...
I feel angry. Because I think, they took over the contest. (which now that it is on paper I am embarrassed. Why in the world would I get angry that something is not filled with all Christians! Nothing in this life is going to be all Christian... and even if it seemed like it, that is not a good thing. We need to get out of the Christian bubble. I guess it just shows a longing for heaven, where everyone is on the same page.)

Show me I'm believeing about God? That He wants us to stay isolated, only surrounded by other Christians. That He doesn't care about the lost.

What's true? That He passionately wants people to know Him. But how can they hear unless someone tells them? He see's the big picture, eternity and the lives of women wo will be effected eternally by this contest.

And another...
I feel worried. Because I think "what are other Christian's going to think of this post?" "What if they get mad at me for being harsh?" Show me I'm believing about God? That He wouldn't be able to comfort me and encourage me even if that were the case. What's true about God? He is the Comforter. He's experienced everything I will ever and has been there. He wont lead me somewhere He wont sustain me. He's rooting for me.


"What we believe about God is the most important thing about us" AW Tozer. Why? Because every action, feeling and emotion is rooted in what we are believing about God.

Remind yourself what's true. And if you're anything like me, remind yourself often.
What now?
Be part of the story God is writing. Don't run. God won't be mocked. He has different and may I add EXCITING plans that look very different than ours. What an opportunity to be in the world, shining a light for Christ but not of it. What a privledge to share the gospel. Seriously! How often do you get to share your faith with people who don't know Christ? It's like God brought it right to you... right where you are. Why run? Why not embrace what He wants to do? Why not love and dialog? Why not enter into someones life/blog and offer respectful, kind words of Life (oh man, scares me to say that since unsolicited advice is a huge pet-peeve of mine. So what I mean is to communicate. Ask questions, seek to understand before just spouting truth. But do say it., do share the gospel.. just be a listener... a learner first.)

"Let your light shine before men..." (Matt 5:16) 
"Proclaim His salvation day after day." (1 Chron. 16:23)
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36 Comments
Robert L
5/27/2011 10:50:05 am

Just fyi, there is nothing wrong with Pagan and or Witch blogs. They are part of the world that you live in. I am part of the world that you live in. My child is part of the world that you live in, and we are all Pagan. Jesus was a witch. He walked on water, turned water into wine, multiplied food, healed the sick.. Mostly things that would be attributed to witchcraft over the past 500 years.

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Gloria link
5/27/2011 10:53:30 am

I really admire your attitude. I have to admit, I was a little upset by all the pagan blogs on there that are getting all this attention and taking away from the true faith of the Christian women on the site. You have challenged me to rethink my attitude towards these women!

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Sarah Mae link
5/27/2011 11:08:31 am

Beautiful. Yes, and Amen.

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Laura link
5/27/2011 11:21:42 am

Robert, I re-read what I posted, I am not sure what I said that lead you to believe I think pagan blogs are not part of the world I live in. My whole point of this post is to address the very issue that things exist in this life that we don't agree with and we have to be respectful in how we deal with them. (But not forsaking what we do believe in)

It is very difficult online to sense someone's attitude... so I could be off, but it seems you are upset. ? Sorry if I am seeing that wrong. If so, please know my heart is to be respectful.

I'd be curious to know why you think Jesus was a witch. And would be curious to know if you think the Bible is from God and accurate.

Please don't take these as attacking you... i am just curious why you said that.

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sarah beals link
5/27/2011 03:10:41 pm

Laura,
Was looking forward to your post! You are so gracious and yet you stand firm for the gospel. Thank you! I have been saddened to see people taking an "in your face" approach on one hand, and a "faith is faith" approach on the other hand. Truth is truth, but of course each person has a right to decide for themselves. That is what is so attractive about the gospel. I will encourage my readers to vote for ya!

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Rhonda
5/27/2011 03:28:28 pm

Laura this is so true! An us vs them attitude is not the attitude of Jesus. Your love for people is so evident!

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Laura
5/27/2011 04:54:43 pm

I think you have it exactly right here Laura. I was complaining about somebody just the other day...they were doing or saying something that was contrary to my belief and my mom stopped me and said don't you think that Jesus died for them too? I know Jesus died for me but I wonder how many of us christians forget that its not just us but everybody, those that agree and don't agree. believing or not believing in Christ does not determine His sacrifice...He did it regardless.

My first reaction to seeing the popularity in the pegan glogs was fear but you are right, He did NOT give us a spirit of fear and every opportunity WILL be used for His glory. Thank you for being faithful Laura...you inspire me and I am sure many others.

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IamHisbeloved link
5/28/2011 12:44:23 am

Beautiful. Truth. Standing with you Laura as a fellow blogger, Christian and friend.

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Amanda Espinoza
5/28/2011 01:14:08 am

AMEN SISTER! Love this article, SPOT ON! Love you :)

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Sharon G
5/28/2011 03:05:24 am

I would like to respectfully but firmly state that Jesus was not a witch, by his own declaration about himself. In Matthew 12 Jesus is accused of driving out demons from a man by the power of Beelzebub. Jesus states, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. If Satan dives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. But if I dive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you."

Christ died for all, and His love is for all. He came to earth to save us, because we all have sinned and we all need a savior. However, he cannot align himself with that which is not of God because He is God. May He be glorified, and may each one come to a saving knowledge of Christ, His death and resurrection. He loves you!

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Sharon G
5/28/2011 03:07:44 am

PS: Please replace the word "dive" with "drive" in the scripture reference above in two places! Sorry for the typo's!

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Angela link
5/28/2011 04:08:35 am

Hello! I wanted to respond and do so without "rallying the troops" as with what happened in the earlier drama. So please understand that I am not posting to my blog or any other social forum about this so that I don't accidentally encourage any entourage to come here and speak. This is strictly me to you.

I am one of those pagan blogs in the running (The Pagan Mom Blog). Personally, i enjoy a nice friendly competition and that is what I thought it was. The comments made about my marriage, praying for my children because they must be confused, and so on crossed a personal line with me. Say whatever you want about me, but don't involve my family. It REALLY hurt to see such ugliness. And the biggest reason why it hurt is because the internet has made us so severely displaced. Most of the hurtful things ever said to me have been only online. I am around Christians every day and have quite a large number of friends that are Christian and never have they hurt me. I personally would never hurt you in respect to your belief. Because I believe that ALL beliefs are sacred and not something to target.

I also want to state that it is not of my plan (or any other plan of a pagan that I personally know) to drive a wedge into anyone's faith just by simply being in a contest. And I say that in response to "I was a little upset by all the pagan blogs on there that are getting all this attention and taking away from the true faith of the Christian women on the site". Faith is NOT something anyone can take away unless the person willingly hands it over. Furthermore, I would never ever be so disrespectful as to try and take anyone's faith. Everyone who knows me knows that I encourage everyone to find in their heart where their faith lies. I could care less what it is (unless they want to start harming people in the process, then I might say something) as long as they are finding that inner peace.

And I really need to mention that "Faith" doesn't mean a specific belief. It is simply believing in a higher being that once cannot prove, as well as believing in a particular religious doctrine". Pagans and witches fall into that category just as easy as anyone else.

Hopefully I was able to convey to you exactly my feelings on this without being disrespectful to your beliefs. I wish everyone well in the contest as it has been enjoyable, despite the earlier conflict.

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Laura link
5/28/2011 05:55:04 am

I have seen the comments you are talking about, talking about your family. I would be very hurt as well. I know what it feels like to have hurtful things said about you online (where I think it is easier to say mean things), I have experienced the same. But when it comes to your family, its a whole different issue it feels like, a whole different pain. I'm sorry your hurting.

I am glad you have some Christian friends around you so you don't think we are all uncaring and disrespectful. But more importantly, that you don't get the impression that Jesus is uncaring and disrespectful. So often people let us down by how they act/respond. But Jesus in incapable of not loving us. He cares that you are hurting Angela.

You are right that "Faith" doesn't equal "Christian". I believe you have just as much right to be in the contest as I do.

Thank you for visiting my blog and being willing to share your heart.

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MrsB link
5/28/2011 07:27:51 am

I think the true beauty of the Top 25 Blogs of Faith by Moms contest is not that the winners will reach 6 million people, but that it has opened the eyes of many to the similarities that we share.

Many blessings to you and yours.

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Michelle
5/28/2011 07:30:50 am

Laura, I know you were worried about how to address the drama that had come to the Circle of Moms faith blog contest. So I wanted to tell you that I think you did an excellent job. Have no idea where Robert got his idea that you were saying "Pagans go away!" He must have only read your first paragraph. You did a lovely job of expressing love for everyone without compromising your own beliefs. Nothing less than what I expected. You rock!

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SomeGirl link
5/28/2011 10:18:27 am

Very nicely said! You've been a great encouragement through this whole contest and continue to be. Thank you! ♥ Michelle

Voting for you daily. :)

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Rowan link
5/28/2011 11:08:27 am

Hello Laura,

I just wanted to thank you for your attitude. I haven't read all the comments and I'm not going to - don't have the time -but I do know in your post, you've encouraged others to seriously analyze how and what they feel, and that is most certainly something you have got in common with us."Know thyself" is one of our first rules, and I, personally belief that knowing yourself and your own feelings can teach you a lot of lessons.

You've acted with love, sister, and though we might not always agree, love is our highest law as well, and I hope that's through that we'll be able to eventually cultivate some kind of understanding between our two groups.

Blessings to you,

Rowan

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Rhonda Denison
5/28/2011 02:35:02 pm

Laura you are so good at looking at yourself and seeing ways that you could think differently about things.

What we believe about God's character is so huge!

All of the people that are blogging are people who are made i the image of God. To think that other christians are acting so unlike Christ is really sad.

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Summer_Faery
5/29/2011 04:09:43 am

Awww, from this Pagan to a wonderful Christian like you, the Goddess loves you too. =) I hope you'll always remember that. =)

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Jo
5/29/2011 05:05:18 am

Laura - Well said! But if I may make one slight point - many Pagans come from a Christian background. Many Pagans were raised in a Christian home. I, for one, was a fervent, practicing Christian for 40 years. I am now a Pagan. I attended Christian schools all my life; my father is a Presbyterian minister; I have two uncles that were Baptist ministers. I was an Elder in my last church & preached many times while the pastor was recovering from cancer. I know the Bible & its theology very thoroughly - from many different perspectives. But I have chosen to walk a Pagan path. That is where I place my faith & where it will stay. The Pagan faith was here long before Judaism, Christianity & Islam. Much of what is believed & celebrated by Christians comes from the Pagan faith. And Pagans are very intelligent, moral people who probably know as much about your religion as you do. They know who Christ is & what he taught - and many of them in the contest, through this little brouhaha, have shown that they are more in tune with his tenets of love & forgiveness than some of the Christians. We are not cut off, we are not isolated, we are not in hiding. We are all over the place & in some places that would probably surprise you.

I hope this has opened your understanding a bit to who & what Pagans really are, and that some of the misconceptions & naivete on your part have been changed. Paganism has been around since the beginning of time in some form or another, and it is not going away, though many have tried to make it - usually by killing us off.

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Laura link
5/29/2011 07:01:51 am

Thank you Jo for visiting my blog. And I appreciate your willingness to share your thoughts.

Thank you for pointing out that many pagans come from a pagan background. I have heard that before, but my experience has been different. I've only had two friends who were pagans, neither had a Christian background (though they both thought they knew what Christianity was about.) When I got to explain what the Bible really says about how we all stand guilty, having offended the Living God and that is why Jesus died-taking the consequence of our guilt, making a way for us to be forgiven, if we choose to recieve it-she gave her life to Christ.

I do college ministry, so really after doing it for 10 years, nothing surprises me anymore except one thing. The reality that the vast majority of students who surrender thier lives to Jesus through our ministry have grown up in church. Crazy! So, in my mind, to hear that you went to church does not equal, you really understanding the gospel. My uncle was a Lutheran pastor before he really gave His life to Christ. This has just been my experience. I am not saying you didn't understand, but I am saying I am not going to assume that you did just because you did religous things.

I do like to have spiritual discussions with people. So, if there were more pagans... all around me-in my life (like I have been told multiple times by pagans from this contest) why are they not speaking up? In person I am a very non-threatening person. I would love to dialog with them. That is what makes me think many people are perhaps isolated... b/c if you can't share something very important to you... I imagine that is very difficult.

I hope I dont come off as harsh. Please know that is not my intention.

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Jo
5/29/2011 07:56:43 am

Laura - I did know Christ - I didn't just 'do' religious things - I knew him - knew his spirit - was on a daily conversational basis with him - but my path now is more affirming & comforting to me than my 40 years in Christianity. And it surprises me to have you ask where the Pagans are - after the brouhaha this contest has started & the hateful & nasty comments that have been directed at us, do you really think we are going to just walk up to anyone & state our faith? No, because we are still persecuted - we are accused of all sorts of stuff that is false & not given much opportunity to educate. That is why many stay in the broom closet a good bit of the time. I just recently lost a friend I have had since I was 19 because she couldn't come to grips with the fact that I no longer think the same as she does & it upsets her sense of security. It is very difficult for Pagans to be out because of this persecution from those who do not understand & do not want to understand. And one tenet of the Pagan faith, is that we do not proselytize. Our belief is that everyone is entitled to walk the path they chose, as long as it does no harm to anyone around them. Most I know do not even take revenge on anyone, because it could do harm. And we also have the golden rule - ours basically says that what we do comes back to us three fold, so that makes us very careful about what we put out there - we watch our words & our actions very carefully. TO get Pagans to be willing to come out to you, you have to be willing to not judge them based on their faith - and a lot of Pagans have not had a good experience with this.

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Jo
5/29/2011 08:50:02 am

Last post - I can't let this slide. I am very tired of this condescending attitude that you seem to have. Please note, I am not stupid. I have an above average IQ & a very educated mind - I was in the church probably longer than you have been alive - I learned the Romans road when I was 10 - I have heard every method of presenting the Gospel that is out there - my father was one of the ones that first taught Evangelism Explosion - I grew up with some of the biggest names in the church being guests in my home & usually called them uncles. The gospel is not that hard to understand - what seems to be the hard part about it, especially for those that want to preach it to those that you judge inferior, is the living of it! The gospel is not just reciting a few scripture verses, saying the sinners prayer & then becoming superior to everyone - it is living a sacrificial life - sacrificing your ideas, your notions, your agenda, your way of thinking, your desires & dreams to follow in Christ's footsteps - to allow him to direct your every thought, word, action. That also means considering yourself lower than those you are ministering to - because how can you really minister with your whole heart if you continue to feel that you are better in some way? That you have all the answers to every question just because you follow a certain faith path? The admonition that those who would be first will be last does not just apply to the Christian hierarchy - it applies to the attitude you show towards everyone around you. By setting yourself up as above me enough to judge me, you are violating the words of Christ to love others as your would yourself. If you loved me as you did yourself, you would not treat me in such a condescending manner, because you would never treat yourself that way. I know that what I am saying will make no difference to how you believe or conduct yourself - but I had to say it. I have had to work very hard to deprogram myself of all those mindsets that were ingrained into me & I have a lot more work to do - but I can say that I am very thankful that my blinders are off & that I can truly think outside the box - and I know many Christians that can also think outside the box & I get along fine with them. Maybe one day you will be able to.

PS - Please do not put me on any prayer lists. I have nothing that needs to be changed & it would be very rude of you to.

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Rowan link
5/29/2011 11:11:35 am

I think the last few posts - I had time to read them this time! - are a great example of the root of the animosity between Christians and Pagans. So this is me, engaging in dialog with you - what I call "frappuccino adventures" on my blog because these things are the most fun done over coffee at Starbucks. :) Because the nuances of attitude and tone are VERY hard to differentiate over the internet, I'm going to go ahead and state that what I'm about to say is in no way meant to be condescending, just an acknowledgement of what I know of your faith and a guess at your feelings and motivations. If I come off as condescending, it is not my intention!

I know that you're trying your best to act in love, Laura, and that according to what you believe, we are people who need to be saved and you're only trying to help us find what will help save our lives. You don't know what it means to me to know someone - a stranger - has that love for me, and I appreciate it and acknowledge you as my sister for it.

However - and when I say "however", imagine it in fifty-foot-high flaming green letters - so many Christians, in their zeal for saving souls and their love for other people, tend to regard those of other faiths as poor, deluded souls who just need to be convinced to the "right" way of thinking. This can result in some pretty offensive treatment.

I was raised in a Christian home, and I accepted Christ at the age of 15. I'm even fairly certain I heard someone - somewhere - call me "daughter." But as I grew older, I came to know that the Christian's path is not mine. It has nothing to do with bad experiences with Christians (something my parents often cite as my reasoning for leaving - which it most certainly was not) but with what I believe are several fundamental flaws with the belief system that I will never be able to make peace with no matter what happens. I don't believe in original sin. I don't believe that a One Male God and His One Male Offspring can make for a balanced religion. These are all things that I pondered and prayed over and studied for over a year before I made a decision to become a pagan, and I have never had such peace in my life since.

Before, I never had peace. You know that peace they describe as settling through you when you become a Christian? That sense of rightness, of coming home?

That's what I felt when I became a pagan.

And that's when the fraying rope that held me to the belief that there was "one true path" just slipped away. I was home, this was my path to being whole.

So when Christians, believing they are right and acting in love, no doubt, come along and tell me that I am being deceived, treating me and those I love and respect like we are just poor, stupid, deluded fools following the devil, and only they and their enlightened future space brains have the One True Path, well - it just kind of comes along and spits on that very precious part of my life. It's the reason, I think, that most pagans I know are adamantly against proselytizing of any kind. Most of us have experienced that feeling of having something precious. personal, and sacred trod upon with no respect. No love. No matter how much you claim to care for us, we can't see your love if we feel as though you have no respect for something that has given us a home and a purpose.

Most of us, you'll find, didn't chose our paths out of rebellion or the need to shock others. We are mature, responsible adults with minds that function just like yours do. Honestly? If I could make myself believe in Christianity - if I could make myself agree with it - I'd do it in a heartbeat. It would make my life so much easier. There would be so much less conflict, and my family wouldn't need to worry so. But my heart honors the Goddess, and that has been part of me all the way back to my very earliest memories.

I would be glad to be a pagan speaking up in your life. If you would like to contact me, my name links my blog, and I would welcome prayers of any sort offered in love. I will pray for you as well.

Blessings to you,

Rowan

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Rhonda
5/29/2011 11:46:53 am

Laura you are not condescending. I know you and that's the last thing you are. Love you:)

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Cameron
5/29/2011 11:57:27 am

Hi Laura - I've been watching this debate and upheaval over the blogs rise for a few days now. First of all, I am grateful for your thoughts here, and your willingness to engage and listen. Thats a hard thing to do. There are many misconceptions about witches and pagans in the Christian world. (and about an equal amount going the other way as well, truthfully.) I am going to throw a few random thoughts about this out in no particular order. First of all - Jo is right. A HUGE section of the pagan community start out as Christians, or within the organization of the Christian church. And unfortunately, the reason many of them walk away from their faith is the damage the church has done to them. Not God, the church. The church is a human organization, with human flaws and behaviors, irregardless of how Jesus would prefer his people to behave. I have talked to many people who have come from horror tales of abuse within the church, hypocrisy in the church, been caught in the power/politics of the church...some people manage to stay, or cope by changing denominations. Many leave. Some to be Christians outside of the church. Some to connect spiritually with other faiths. Some to deny all spirituality ever again. And we would be wrong in writing them off or condescending to them by witnessing to them or sighing that their faith just wasn't strong enough. How does the world know we are Christians? By our works, by the Bible verses we can quote, by the blogs we write, by coming out triumphant in a competition? In a word...NO. By this shall all know that you are Mine - that you have LOVE for one another. So when the church treats others with scorn and abuse and pain, and shatters lives - and Laura, it does. You ought to commit to listening to some stories sometime - we by our behavior, shatter the witness of the church. Show that we don't belong to Jesus. I have heard more than one person say that they view a difference between "christians" and REAL Christians that show the love of Jesus. And the so called body of Christ is how the world knows who Jesus is. Secondly...not every one is a good fit for Christianity. Or a good fit for a specific denomination. Some people find that they belong elsewhere. And that is totally their choice. Nor do we know everyone's fate or future. Remember, the Jesus says "I have sheep not of this pasture." Remember, the Pagan centurion who's servant Jesus healed - and Jesus said I have not seen faith like this in all Israel...and healed the man. He did not say that the man had to become a Christian, or a Jew - which is what Jesus was - he said that this pagans faith was greater than His own peoples. Think about that. Also , keep in mind that the Hollywood/medieval idea of "witches" and "witch craft" is a construct of middle ages Christianity and the entertainment culture of today. The word witch from the famous words in Exodus - thou shalt not suffer a witch to live - the word translated as witch is the word chasaph--which was mistranslated as poisoner. The day and era of the King James Bible was on the tail end of the the witch-hunt era in the medieval era. And most of the people burned or tortured as "witches" were Christians, caught up in the hysteria, and false accusations, or midwives and herbalists slandered by the rising power of the medical guilds. In the rural area, people turned to those who had knowledge of herbs and passed down knowledge of healing, and midwifery. And the medical establishment just forming politically opposed the rural wise person - not always a woman, btw - as an ignorant rival. The church also promoted the witch craft trials and hunts - those who perished in them, their property went to the church - and many a wealthy widow or widower conveniently disappeared into the furnace of the hunts. So called witches as the church defined them did not exist in reality. There was no league with "Satan". Any true pagan out there did not believe in Satan any more than they believed in God as the church defined it. So there were no black rites, or having sex with devils. These are all outlandish lies from and age of ignorance and venality, that is now the subject of Hollywood and
really bad movies and novels. When you encounter a pagan, you encounter someone who holds a different faith from yours. They do not worship Satan, so any attempt to label them as Satanists is ludicrous and insulting. The only way to connect with someone who has a different faith from yours as Christian, is to treat them with respect. Live your life so that you reflect the life of Christ in love. And listen to them. Really listen. Do not start from a position of condescension, but from the position of a servant. Remember, the disciples were also arguing about who would be first in the Kingdom to come - a little bit like arguing who is in the top 25 blogs for Faith Mom's, y'know. Gotta know who's the best - and then Jesus stopped them cold by stripping off his outer clothes, getting a basin of water

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Cameron
5/29/2011 12:09:20 pm

(con't) getting a basin of water and washing their feet, covered with road filth and dirt, which was the job of the lowliest menial servant.What has anyone who has watched this play out seen, but squabbling and debate? To connect with other people you have to lay aside the debates, and the competition, and take up the basin and the towel. To connect with other people you have to start from a position of losing all your biases and what you think you "know". Because people can sense immediately when you do hold prejudicial uniformed incorrect views. You say you want a dialog? Then give the person you wish to dialog with the space to speak, without judgement, with the idea that they know what they are talking about, and that you can learn from them. And this is true across the board in every human endeavor. It does not mean you have to give up what you believe. It means that you will learn how to live what you believe in an entirely different way. I now show you a more excellent way...if we speak with the tongues of angels and of men and have not love, we are become as clanging brass. Ask Jo or any of the others who have written to you what they would like to say to you or need to say to you. Listen. Set aside your preconceptions. Learn. And love. And that is all that matters. Leave to God anything else. Not all who are Christians do good for God. And not all pagans are severed from God...and certainly none of them have anything to do with Satan anymore than you do. Start over and see what happens. Until you do...the world will not see Christ, they will only see the squabbling around the table...and not the one upon His knees.

Let me know what you think...Nice thing about being Christian and pagan - I can speak ex cathedra from my navel on either side! ;)

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Brenda
5/30/2011 09:20:39 am

I will not over flow your comments here, I just wanted to respond...

I felt it important to express to you my reaction. I feel that your attitude and process for evaluating how you are reacting emotionally and mentally is inspiring. I think that a lot of people would benefit greatly from your outlook, whether they are Christian or not.

Faith and prayer are important, and analyzing your relationship with whatever higher powers you honor keeps the soul and the heart healthy, while soothing the mind.

May your God keep you in all things.

If you will expect such a prayer from a 'pagan'. ;)

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Donna
5/31/2011 06:48:22 am

"I do like to have spiritual discussions with people. So, if there were more pagans... all around me-in my life (like I have been told multiple times by pagans from this contest) why are they not speaking up? In person I am a very non-threatening person. I would love to dialog with them. That is what makes me think many people are perhaps isolated... b/c if you can't share something very important to you... I imagine that is very difficult."

I would like to speak to this, if it's ok, though I realize I'm a bit late to the discussion. I'm a Pagan mom in Texas, I was raised in a Baptist church, and after leaving the church of my childhood I spent some time in other christian churches. Most people I meet assume I'm christian, most people I know assume I'm still christian. There are a few trusted people in my family and family of friends who know of my beliefs, but I'm not as open as I would like to be.

I cannot assume to speak for all pagans, but I can tell you why I feel it's necessary for me to be careful with about being open in my faith. The big reason is that there are people in my family who will not accept me and my beliefs. There is no question of this, and the pain and strife that my faith will cause within my family is simply not worth my selfish desire to be free of the burden of holding my tongue. Does that keep me isolated? In some ways yes. But this situation has caused me to work to see the common threads of our respective faiths, and to appreciate them where I find them. In a way it would be more satisfying -maybe even easier- to loudly declare that I'm different than they, and insist they see me for who I am and acknowledge my right to practice my religion, but it would not necessarily be better.

Sometimes it is much easier to be open to strangers, those who are not emotionally invested in seeing me a certain way. Even so, I sometime hold my tongue when discussing belief with strangers, too. Why? Usually it's because I'm in a one-sided discussion. The person, or people, I'm talking to are interested in telling me about *their* beliefs, and are only interested in hearing mine so far as my beliefs will either validate their own or give them an opportunity to witness to a lost soul. I am open to people who are open to accepting me, and my faith, without falling over themselves to try to change me.

There are also people who I consider friends, maybe not *close* friends, but friends none the less, who I would lose if they knew that not only am I not christian, but (gasp) pagan. Discretion is the better part of valor, no? I would be willing to bet that the three women in my neighborhood who I count among my friends and close acquaintances would be surprised, if not out-right scandalized, to find themselves friends and neighbors with a pagan. But it doesn't change the fact that they are.

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Laura link
6/1/2011 07:12:47 am

Donna, Thank you so much for sharing. I can imagine that would be very difficult to deal with peoples reactions. And I totally understand about one-sided conversations. I'm sorry.

To encourage you... my husband and I do college ministry and we try to help students not talk at people, but with them... asking lots of questions trying to really understand and hear where people are at. So, hopefully "sharing the gospel" will become a lot more of a conversation rather than being talked at.

I'm sorry you have felt disrepected. I think it is very hard for Christians to share with people even though they really want to. So when they do, know that it is a huge risk they are taking, they are scared to death what you/people are going to think of them. And the fact that they are even talking at you... shows that they honestly care about you (even though that doesnt seem to be the case).

Think of a bumbling teenage boy trying to ask a girl out. We may bumble about and hurt people in the process (totally out of fear), but it truly is out of a heart of love.

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Lori Devine link
6/2/2011 04:39:20 am

Hello to all! I enjoyed the conversation over at the Journey to Beloved blog. Everyone was able to present what they believed was truth without compromising the integrity of their faith.

I hope to give the pagan mom's here a perspective on what I think Laura is saying. I understand where she is coming from, because I grew up in the church. I said I had a relationship with Christ. I prayed to Him. I wanted nothing more to be used of Him. But guess what? I really didn't "get it." I did not dedicate my life to Christ until I was 19 years old.

As Christians, we are bound to God's Word. That's hard for intellectual people to swallow. But we believe that we must be bound to it because we believe that it is the only source of truth. We don't find truth "within ourselves." We believe that all men are fallen and need a Savior. We believe Jesus literally when He says "There is one God and one mediator between man and God." And that person is Christ Himself. The Bible is pretty clear that both heaven and hell exist, and that there is a narrow path to God--through the blood of Christ.

So, it is easy to understand how we might come off a condescending to other beliefs. We are simply standing for what we believe to be truth. We cannot sit and look you in the face and honestly say that we believe you have got it right--that would not be honest. But we CAN be friends. We can co-exist peacefully. There is no need to run from each other. The nature of Christianity is evangelic. It is what were are commanded to do....we believe that. So please do not think that we consider ourselves better than you. Truth be told, a true Christian considers himself better than no one. Maybe we can simply pray for each other and not take offense by it.

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Sabrina link
6/2/2011 05:10:59 am

As the author of one of those Pagan blogs I have to say I have some mixed feeling about this post. I am a happy and proud Pagan Woman and Mother. And as a Mother and Blogger I have just as much right to be on that list as you do.

That said, I can understand the fear because it's something I live with every day. What if my home is burned down, as a friends was, because of my beliefs. What if my rights are removed. What if my children are attacked... All because of our beliefs? So the idea of feeling like someone elses beliefs can and do affect your world are, at least in my opinion, very valid.

That said, the idea that there is any "Us vs Them" is disturbing. It's that attitude that gives us a cause for such fears about our world. If you keep up with religious news you would find that even today there are children and women being burned alive because of the fear of Pagan and Witches, and it's that Us vs Them attitude which fuels it, and so many other issues like it.

Instead of worrying that one view or another should be the majority, we should be focusing on living together. You don't need to agree with someone's beliefs to understand that they are good people and deserve the same amount of respect, love and support as anyone else. IF your beliefs are right, then God will judge, IF mine are, then there is nothing for you to worry about. Either way, living in harmony with one another can only lead us down a more positive path while we are here...

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Laura link
6/2/2011 05:34:05 am

Thank you so much Lori. That is exactly what I am thinking, but put into words better than I could.

Sabrina, I have said many times, you and the jewish and the muslim blogs all have just as much a right to be in the faith blogs as I do. Not sure why you sense it necessary to put me in my place with that?

About the us vs. them... that is exactly what I am talking about. We can't see each other as the enemy. Though I am not saying everyone should think everyone elses beliefs are true, but that every person (not idea) deserves respect... dignity.

About the keep up with the religous news... quite honestly that angers me... why do you assume I don't keep up with the religous news? My husband is in a country where they kill Christians and his hotel was bombed a couple days ago. Believe me, I "keep up wiht the religious news". I'm a bit defensive right now after having my motives judged being called condesending when that is not at all my intentions and being told I don't keep up with religious news when my husbands very life is in danger.

But you are right in saying "you don't need to agree with someone's beliefs to understand that they are good people and deserve the same amount of respect, love and support..." That was my whole point of this post. I totally agree and I believe the Christians I know would agree with you too.

But there is more. My don't want hurt anybody side of me wants to not tell anyone something they don't want to hear. But how much would I have to hate someone to not tell them that they stand guilty before God and deserve hell? (Just like I do!)And that there is a gift of forgiveness held out? Seriously? That is hate, not harmony to keep that to myself b/c I'm afraid of hurting someones feelings. That is caring about myself more than I care about others.

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Sara
6/2/2011 08:24:17 am

Laura, I agree with you. Although I can't say that every Christian has the right motives or even has love in their heart for the person they are sharing with. Some may do it just because "it's what Christians do" or because they are right and need to let it be known. All that aside, Jesus' gift of Salvation is precious. Worth more than anything of this world. For us to not share it, for us to keep it to ourselves for fear of rejection, or because we don't want to come off as "condescending", truly is caring about myself more than I care about others. I feel tolerance is being pushed so hard these days that it makes it even more difficult for us to share Jesus' precious gift. Because, to receiving ears, being told that we are all guilty of sin and that ALL need Jesus...it doesn't sound very 'tolerant' does it? Laura, I want to encourage you and commend you for standing up so firmly in what you believe in and for truly displaying love and at the same time being firm about the Truth. Praise the Lord that it has already been won and that one day every tongue will confess He is God and one day every knee will bow. Still, the greatest treasure remains to those who gladly choose Him now. Lord, come quickly.

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Valerie
6/7/2011 07:26:32 am

Hi there, I know I'm late to all of this. I'm a pagan mommy. My husband is atheist. Just had to throw that out there so you know who I am (kinda). I completely respect your beliefs, and enjoyed reading your take on this whole situation. I'll be honest, when it's all over with (the end of the contest can't come soon enough, it makes my head hurt), I've found some great blogs to read. Including yours, Julie's and handful of other Christian blogs, as well as blogs of other faiths. That part makes me happy. So with whatever ugliness started all of this, some positive came out of it.

Thank you for not sticking with your initial reaction, yet not compromising your beliefs. Things like that (on both "sides) are what will make this whole situation a success.

Have a great day, and I look forward to reading your blog in the future.

<3 Valerie, a pagan mommy. :)

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IarasChamber link
6/9/2011 12:42:50 am

I'm Pagan and thank you for having a positive outlook on how we fit into this. Obviously we won't agree on everything, but it's a little easier when people are talking to us instead shouting at us. Positive attitudes can make a great difference and I believe God and Jesus believed this as well.

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